RE: [BEHAVE] TURN: technical review by September 1

>-----Original Message-----
>From: ext Dan Wing [mailto:dwing@cisco.com] 
>Sent: 30 July, 2007 20:27
>To: behave@ietf.org
>Cc: 'Rohan Mahy'; huitema@microsoft.com
>Subject: [BEHAVE] TURN: technical review by September 1
>
>In Chicago at IETF-69 we explained the urgency around 
>rfc3489bis ("STUNbis") and TURN.  ICE needs to be published at 
>the same time as rfc3489bis and TURN because ICE normatively 
>references those documents.  Rfc3489bis underwent substantial 
>revision between -06 and -08, and I just WGLC'd rfc3489bis-08 
>a few minutes ago.  However, TURN is not yet ready to be WGLC'd.

Frankly, I do not understand why ICE normatively depends on TURN.
I could use SOCKS, UPnP, NAT-PMP, you-name-it... to generate
my candidates, yet ICE does not depend on these.

Of course, STUNbis is a dependency due to embracing and extending
the STUN messages format. But TURN... ??? In fact, while I understand
it might be late to "fix" this, I do not understand why ICE
specifically mention TURN all over the place in the details, while it
mentions tons of other potential non-normative ways to obtain
candidates in its introduction, but this is a minor almost-editorial
issue. So why is TURN not an informative reference?

However... I am sorry to say that, but I think it would be wrong to
Declare TURN "ready" before we´ve had the chance to examine its
Interactions with ICE-TCP, and that´s not something I can put within
5 weeks (counting from the end of last IETF). I mean, ICE-TCP is no
easy task in itself, and it would clearly be a pita when TURN turns
out to work fine with UDP and be broken with TCP (I would really like
we do not reproduce the mistakes from MSRP this time).

An alternative is to split TURN into UDP/UDP, first and the other
combinations separately, but I would not like this at all if I were
one of the editor. That´s what´s been done with ICE though, and I
expect that´s what implementors do - Does anyone know of a ICE-TCP
stack out yet at all?

Regards,

-- 
Rémi Denis-Courmont
Software Engineer
Nokia TP/SP, Helsinki 

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