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discuss Digest of: thread.5315

discuss Digest of: thread.5315


Re: Greg Ferguson -- LinuxGazette Membership.... (fwd)
	5279 by: Machtelt Garrels
	5283 by: rahul
	5285 by: jdd
	5288 by: rahul
	5291 by: jdd
	5293 by: rahul
	5315 by: Rodolfo J. Paiz
	5357 by: Rick Moen
	5391 by: Rick Moen
	5392 by: Mark Seven Smith
	5393 by: Rick Moen
	6188 by: Guylhem Aznar
	6193 by: Guylhem Aznar

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Did I already pass this on from feedback?

- -- 

My Penguin, my freedom.		http://tille.soti.org


- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 18:18:13 +0000 (GMT)
From: Thomas Adam <thomas_adam16 at yahoo.com>
To: feedback at en.tldp.org
Subject: FAO: Greg Ferguson -- LinuxGazette Membership....

Greg,

Hello. I am mailing you on behalf of the editor-team of the Linux Gazette
(LG). We are writing to politely inform you of certain 'changes' that the
LG has incured due to disputes with SSC.

SSC have decided that they would now rather run a CMS-Engine at
http://www.linuxgazette.com. However, this goes against the very basis
with which LG was initially founded, and consequently a 'fork' has
occured. The 'new' LG is now located here:

http://linuxgazette.net

Would you be willing to mirror us, as you always have?

Kind Regards,

Thomas Adam,
Editor-Team: http://linuxgazette.net

=====
Thomas Adam

"The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net
"TAG Editor"                            -- http://linuxgazette.net

________________________________________________________________________
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On Wednesday 12 November 2003 20:52, Machtelt Garrels wrote:
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>
>
> Did I already pass this on from feedback?
>
> - --

i think we should mirror linuxgazette.net and not linuxgazette.com. it is more 
portable and matches ldp's goals
regards
rahul sundaram

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Machtelt Garrels wrote:


Did I already pass this on from feedback?



Hello. I am mailing you on behalf of the editor-team of the Linux Gazette
(LG). We are writing to politely inform you of certain 'changes' that the
LG has incured due to disputes with SSC.

SSC have decided that they would now rather run a CMS-Engine at
http://www.linuxgazette.com. However, this goes against the very basis
with which LG was initially founded, and consequently a 'fork' has
occured. The 'new' LG is now located here:
what does this really mean? is CMS "Content Management System" and in what is this contradictory with ldp goals? 

thanks
jdd

--
http://www.dodin.net
Me contacter avant d'envoyer une pièce jointe, merci.
Une chanteuse sur Toulouse?
http://valerie.dodin.net

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
On Wednesday 12 November 2003 21:07, jdd wrote:
> Machtelt Garrels wrote:
> > Did I already pass this on from feedback?
> >
> > Hello. I am mailing you on behalf of the editor-team of the Linux Gazette
> > (LG). We are writing to politely inform you of certain 'changes' that the
> > LG has incured due to disputes with SSC.
> >
> > SSC have decided that they would now rather run a CMS-Engine at
> > http://www.linuxgazette.com. However, this goes against the very basis
> > with which LG was initially founded, and consequently a 'fork' has
> > occured. The 'new' LG is now located here:
>
> what does this really mean? is CMS "Content Management System" and in
> what is this contradictory with ldp goals?
>
> thanks
> jdd

i thought you guys were already aware of the issue. please read the 
linuzgazette.net article on the issue with the cms move

regards
rahul sundaram

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
rahul wrote:
i thought you guys were already aware of the issue. please read the linuzgazette.net article on the issue with the cms move
I don't see anything on the home page of any one (com or net), but the two claim to be member of the LDP and this may be a problem? 

jdd


--
http://www.dodin.net
Me contacter avant d'envoyer une pièce jointe, merci.
Une chanteuse sur Toulouse?
http://valerie.dodin.net

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
On Wednesday 12 November 2003 22:25, jdd wrote:
> rahul wrote:
> > i thought you guys were already aware of the issue. please read the
> > linuzgazette.net article on the issue with the cms move
>
> I don't see anything on the home page of any one (com or net), but the
> two claim to be member of the LDP and this may be a problem?
>
> jdd

ok. the linuxjournal.com site is turning into a content management system
driven one sponspored by SSC. The linux gaxette team has uninamously voted
against it and have started linuxgazette.net which retains the same format as
before.

http://linuxgazette.net/issue96/reborn.html


regards
rahul sundaram

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
At 09:48 11/12/2003, rahul wrote:


i thought you guys were already aware of the issue. please read the
linuzgazette.net article on the issue with the cms move
Regardless of right and wrong on this issue, we should find out what is going on. Both the .com and the .net sites claim to be a member of the LDP in the first three lines of their home pages (note, lines which happen to be identical), and both sites claim to have the trademark/copyright of the name "Linux Gazette" in their favor. 


--
Rodolfo J. Paiz
rpaiz at simpaticus.com

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
"Rodolfo J. Paiz" <rpaiz at simpaticus.com> wrote:

> Regardless of right and wrong on this issue, we should find out what is 
> going on.

If I can help provide relevant information, I'll be glad.  I'm one of
the Linux Gazette staff who (unanimously) decided in early October to
move the Gazette to new hosting.  If any of you has LWN subscriptions,
you'll find a more complete story in the last two issues, especially the
current issue's Letters column, which reproduces the Oct. 28
notification letter we sent SSC owner Phil Hughes thanking him for
hosting and letting him know we were moving.

> Both sites claim to have the trademark/copyright of the name "Linux
> Gazette" in their favor.

Copyrights of all published material has _always_ rested with the
individual authors, all the way back to issue #1 in 1995.  This
continues to be true.

As far as we can tell, SSC started asserting trademark very recently out
of anger over our departure.  No trademark has ever been registered.
Moreover, the company didn't create our "brand"; magazine founder John
M. Fisk did.  Most important, trademark is completely inapplicable in
any event, because it exists only with regard to commerce, and LG has
always been explicitly non-commercial.  (There are signs SSC may intend
to change the latter as to its site.)

At the time of our departure, SSC had already told us that they would
cease publishing LG as a magazine at all:  No more issues, no more
editors, no more static content (and thus no more mirror network). 
Phil Hughes wanted to replace it with a Slashdot-style dynamic-content
Web discussion board (aka CMS = content management system).

When SSC deployed that dynamic-content replacement site (late October), 
we sent our notice of departure, established http://linuxgazette.net/, 
and published the November issue there.

_Subsequent_ to our departure letter, SSC apparently modified its plans
without advising us:  They hurriedly put together a rather thin and
not-very-good November issue of their own, and (to our great surprise)
published it in addition to their dynamic-content site.  The LDP's 
automatic mirroring script has picked up that (SSC, Inc.
employee-produced) issue.

We regret the confusion:  It wasn't our idea, and SSC's creation of a
_second_ mirrorable Gazette as of November came as a complete surprise
to us.  All we can think to do is just keep on doing what we've been
doing for eight years, publishing an issue the first of each month --
and try to minimise confusion and take the high road.

Naturally, we appreciate our LDP membership.  (_Our_ Linux Gazette is
non-commercial and published by volunteer members of the Linux
community.)  It would be nice if LDP would mirror the November and
subsequent issues.  Details are at http://linuxgazette.net/mirrors.html , 
or send mail to mirrors at linuxgazette.net . 

-- 
Cheers,                             * Contributing Editor, Linux Gazette *
Rick Moen                       -*- See the Linux Gazette in its new home: -*-
rick at linuxmafia.com                       <http://linuxgazette.net/>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
I should mention something else affecting the LDP:  Your back-issue
archive of Linux Gazette has been retroactively censored by SSC.  At a
minimum, I would suggest replacing LDP's copies of issue #95 (Oct. 2003)[1] 
and #92 (July 2003)[2] with pristine copies.  

Do I correctly guess that SSC, Inc. didn't inform LDP?  They didn't tell
us (LG editors), either.  I'll explain.


Around Oct. 2-4, 2003, Joerg Jaspert <joerg at debian.org>, who packages
Linux Gazette for Debian, mentioned to LG editor Heather Stern
<star at starshine.org> that material she'd told him to expect in the
October issue's Mailbag column wasn't there.  He asked whether it had
been deferred.  This came as a surprise to Heather, who _had_ included
it in the published issue.

We quickly checked, and found that not only had the then-current issue
been tampered with at www.linuxgazette.com and mirrors, but so had at
least one back issue:  An entire article had been retroactively removed
from the July 2003 issue -- without notice to the staff or author.

We immediately inquired with both SSC, Inc. owner Phil Hughes and with
his webmaster.  Receiving no reply, we asked again several days later.
No reply.  (We would have telephoned them, but they're now in Costa Rica.)

It was now apparent that the integrity of issues at www.linuxgazette.com
couldn't be trusted.  Initially, we had difficulty repairing the damage,
because SSC's behind-our-backs changes (including adding "TM" symbols to
the phrase "Linux Gazette", by the way) had already propagated to most
LG mirrors.  Fortunately, the Debian packages were still pristine, and
we were able to reconstruct an undamaged back-issue archive from that. 

We've been a bit too busy to check the other back issues, but you might
want to refresh yours from http://linuxgazette.net/ .  (The one you need
to treat manually is issue #96, Nov. 2003, which differs between SSC's
version, produced by SSC employees, and the community-produced one at 
linuxgazette.net .  We're sorry about that confusion:  It wasn't our
idea.)

LG's editors never change back issues -- with very rare exceptions to
fix broken links, maybe spelling errors, etc.  For one thing, it would
be unkind to mirror sites.


[1] http://www.tldp.org/LDP/LG/issue95/index.html  Compare against
unmodified version:  http://linuxgazette.net/issue95/index.html, whose
Mailbag article wasn't truncated by SSC.

[2] http://www.tldp.org/LDP/LG/issue92/index.html  Compare against
unmodified version:  http://linuxgazette.net/issue92/index.html, which
correctly contains Janine M. Lodato's article.

-- 
Cheers,                             * Contributing Editor, Linux Gazette *
Rick Moen                       -*- See the Linux Gazette in its new home: -*-
rick at linuxmafia.com                       <http://linuxgazette.net/>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
On Thursday 13 November 2003 18:13, Rick Moen wrote:
> I should mention something else affecting the LDP:  Your back-issue
...
[SNIP]
> We immediately inquired with both SSC, Inc. owner Phil Hughes and
> with his webmaster.  Receiving no reply, we asked again several days
> later. No reply.  (We would have telephoned them, but they're now in
> Costa Rica.)

Hiding, perhaps?

What's really going on?  I guess I'm new to this dicussion... ?

TIA,
-- 
Mark Seven Smith  -  pampaluz at cox.net
Free Software Foundation (www.gnu.org) Member #1372 Pampaluz
Linux Counter #122264 - http://counter.li.org/

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Quoting Mark Seven Smith (pampaluz at cox.net):

> Hiding, perhaps?

Heh.  ;->  I've been spending about a month passing up cheap shots, and 
so should no-comment this.  Honestly, Phil H. visited Costa Rica in
2001 and found it such a pleasant place that he moved residences there
from Seattle, and all of SSC's Web-hosting operations soon followed.

> What's really going on?  I guess I'm new to this dicussion... ?

You may want to look at the earlier part of this thread at,
http://lists.tldp.org/index.cgi?1:dds:0:200311

Also:  the Gazette editors' timeline of the magazine's history, at
http://linuxgazette.net/issue96/moen.html

And last:  Linux Weekly News coverage for the last two issues.  If you
don't have an LWN subscription, then the current issue won't be
accessible for another week, but the prior issue's coverage can be read
by anyone, at http://lwn.net/Articles/56495/ .

(I'm obviously not a neutral party, but will be glad to answer any
questions, and provide further resources, as straight-forwardly as I can.)

-- 
Cheers,                             * Contributing Editor, Linux Gazette *
Rick Moen                       -*- See the Linux Gazette in its new home: -*-
rick at linuxmafia.com                       <http://linuxgazette.net/>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Hello,

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:44:45 -0600
"Rodolfo J. Paiz" <rpaiz at simpaticus.com> wrote:
> Regardless of right and wrong on this issue, we should find out what is 
> going on. Both the .com and the .net sites claim to be a member of the LDP 
> in the first three lines of their home pages (note, lines which happen to 
> be identical), and both sites claim to have the trademark/copyright of the 
> name "Linux Gazette" in their favor.

I don't know about the trademark, but the LG was part of the LDP, and therefore
may still be.

Problem is - which LG (.com? .net?)

I will get in touch with the author of the original email and ask what we can
do.

Best regards,
Guylhem


-- 
* at externe.net ![guylhem at oeil.qc.ca->@metalab.unc.edu->@ibiblio.org->@7un.org]
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--- Begin Message --- 
Hello,

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:09:59 -0800
Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:
> Naturally, we appreciate our LDP membership.  (_Our_ Linux Gazette is
> non-commercial and published by volunteer members of the Linux
> community.)  It would be nice if LDP would mirror the November and
> subsequent issues.  Details are at http://linuxgazette.net/mirrors.html , 
> or send mail to mirrors at linuxgazette.net . 

We will. I however suggest you get subscribed to discuss at en.tldp.org - we can
also set up a mailing list for your project if needed.

Another LDP member project, LinuxFocus, is doing something much like the LG.
Maybe it would be a nice opportunity for everyone to work together?

Best regards,
Guylhem


-- 
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