Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independent Networks' to BCP
Keith Moore <moore@cs.utk.edu> Thu, 16 June 2005 12:49 UTC
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Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 08:49:01 -0400
From: Keith Moore <moore@cs.utk.edu>
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Cc: Dean Anderson <dean@av8.com>, ietf@ietf.org, iesg <iesg@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independent Networks' to BCP
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> There is a strong rough consensus in the email operations community that open > relays -- MTAs that accept mail from any source on the open Internet, when it is > directly destined to go back out to the Internet -- prevents providing > reasonable levels of message sender accountability. > > That rough consensus has been in place for quite a few years. sometimes rough consensus is wrong, particularly when it hasn't resulted from informed, intelligent dialogue. another way to put it is that sometimes rough consensus is indistinguishable from blind prejudice. it's possible to have open relays that don't contribute to spam. but those relays need to employ some other means, e.g. rate limiting, to block spam. the goal of such relays is to make it at least as easy for the spammer to simply contact the appropriate MXes for the destination addresses as to use the relays. of course it is necessary for such relays to record source IP addresses, etc., so that they are as traceable to their origin as messages sent directly to MXes. unfortunately, the vigilante character of various open-relay blacklists killed any attempt at this kind of innovation. just as we're now in danger of various kinds of brain-dead "authentication" methods and meaningless requirements killing useful email functionality. > The fact that attackers are not trying to exploit a particular weakness right > now, although they used it heavily in the past, does not justify leaving the > weakness in place. this much is certainly true. Keith _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Sam Hartman
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Dave Crocker
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Frank Ellermann
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Sam Hartman
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Dave Crocker
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Pekka Savola
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Ned Freed
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Sam Hartman
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… John C Klensin
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Pekka Savola
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Simon Josefsson
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Sam Hartman
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Ned Freed
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… John Leslie
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Kurt D. Zeilenga
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… John C Klensin
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Steven M. Bellovin
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Keith Moore
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Dave Crocker
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Simon Josefsson
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Dave Crocker
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Keith Moore
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Keith Moore
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Dave Crocker
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Dave Crocker
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Keith Moore
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Keith Moore
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Jeffrey Hutzelman
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Frank Ellermann
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Dave Crocker
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Kurt D. Zeilenga
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Jeffrey Hutzelman
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Dave Crocker
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Keith Moore
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Dave Crocker
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Keith Moore
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… wayne
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Jeffrey Hutzelman
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Keith Moore
- correction Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Betwe… Keith Moore
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Frank Ellermann
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Frank Ellermann
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Keith Moore
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… John C Klensin
- RE: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Christian Huitema
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Bruce Lilly
- Client and server authentication for email (was: … John C Klensin
- RE: Client and server authentication for email (w… Scott Hollenbeck
- RE: Client and server authentication for email (w… John C Klensin
- RE: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Dave Crocker
- Re: Client and server authentication for email (w… JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: Client and server authentication for email Sam Hartman
- unsubscibe avijit mallick
- Re: Client and server authentication for email Dave Crocker
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Tom Petch
- Re: Client and server authentication for email Keith Moore
- Re: Client and server authentication for email Dave Crocker
- Re: Client and server authentication for email Keith Moore
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… David Hopwood
- Re: Client and server authentication for email John C Klensin
- Re: Client and server authentication for email Keith Moore
- Re: Client and server authentication for email John C Klensin
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Dave Crocker
- Re: Client and server authentication for email Keith Moore
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Dave Crocker
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Daniel Senie
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Keith Moore
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Dave Crocker
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Keith Moore
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Dave Crocker
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Keith Moore
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Dave Crocker
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Keith Moore
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Dave Crocker
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Keith Moore
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… April Marine
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Dave Crocker
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Dave Crocker
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Dave Crocker
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Dean Anderson
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Tony Finch
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Dave Crocker
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Dean Anderson
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Ned Freed
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Keith Moore
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Tony Finch
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Dave Crocker
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Ned Freed
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Keith Moore
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Dave Crocker
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Dean Anderson
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Dean Anderson
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… nick.staff
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Larry Smith
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… nick.staff
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Dean Anderson
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Bruce Lilly
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Frank Ellermann
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Bruce Lilly
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Frank Ellermann
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Bruce Lilly
- Re: Last Call: 'Email Submission Between Independ… Sam Hartman