Re: I-D file formats and internationalization
Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com> Fri, 02 December 2005 08:52 UTC
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Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 09:51:47 +0100
From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>
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Cc: Tim Bray <tbray@textuality.com>
Subject: Re: I-D file formats and internationalization
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Hi Tim, on 2005-12-02 02:44 Tim Bray said the following: [snip] > I will now shut up. It is clearly the case that there is tremendous > resistance within the IETF to leaving their comfy ASCII enclave. Following the debate from the sideline till now, it's clear to me that there are at least a few people who are adamantly against change. I'm not at all convinced that a large majority feels this way. A poll might reveal more than the relative proportions of highly engaged people voicing their views here. As for the issue itself - no, make that some of the issues... A lot of people seem to appreciate the html-ized and PDF-ized versions provided on the tools.ietf.org site, even if the convenience offered by those are small compared to what could be available if a richer format was available during document preparation. Personally, I think we would benefit from * having the XML format championed by xml2rfc as a common source format * having support for the complete range of unicode characters for author attribution in the source format * having the ability to consistently generate multiple presentation format from this - including ASCII and UTF-8 text for textual diffs, html with links for browsing, and pdf for consistent cross-platform printing. Regarding the stability of the presentation format, I note that - A new version of PDF called PDF/A (A for Archive) has recently been standardized in ISO 19005-1 as an "Electronic document file format for long-term preservation". This is going to be around for a while. - HTML 4 is also stable; the latest published version is 4.01 from 1999. - Text, as has been pointed out, is going to be readable long after other formats have come and gone. Yes, that's true, but readable doesn't necessarily mean as easily accessible as other formats. I think we're already seeing that richer formats is passing text as the format of choice for most people, and platform support for easy handling of the different formats is shifting. However - aren't we lucky! If we have a standardized format (RFC 2629 or revisions thereof) from which we can generate multiple presentation formats, we could always use it to generate the format-du-jour if it should come to pass that both PDF/A, HTML 4 and text should be hopelessly outdated... Now, the toughest question here is which presentation format should be normative. I think that something richer than ASCII would be good. It's not clear to me that there is one obvious choice for which format it should be. In 1 or 2 years I might say PDF/A if it has enough tool support, as it's open and free, cross-platform consistent, designed to be stable and long-term accessible. But I'd consider it only if we have a common source format from which we can reliably produce other versions such as HTML for browsing and ASCII/UTF-8 for diffing. Henrik _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
- RE: I-D file formats and internationalization Hallam-Baker, Phillip
- RE: I-D file formats and internationalization Nelson, David
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Robert Sayre
- I-D file formats and internationalization Robert Sayre
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Ole Jacobsen
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Eduardo Mendez
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Eliot Lear
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Mark Baugher
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Jeroen Massar
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Frank Ellermann
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Douglas Otis
- RE: I-D file formats and internationalization Bob Braden
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Paul Hoffman
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Frank Ellermann
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Douglas Otis
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Paul Hoffman
- Internationalization by ASCII art (was Re: I-D fi… Masataka Ohta
- Re: Internationalization by ASCII art (was Re: I-… Robert Sayre
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Douglas Otis
- RE: I-D file formats and internationalization JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- RE: I-D file formats and internationalization JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Robert Sayre
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Paul Hoffman
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Douglas Otis
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Tim Bray
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Keith Moore
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Tim Bray
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Keith Moore
- RE: I-D file formats and internationalization Hallam-Baker, Phillip
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Keith Moore
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Robert Sayre
- RE: I-D file formats and internationalization Gray, Eric
- RE: I-D file formats and internationalization Hallam-Baker, Phillip
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Keith Moore
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Keith Moore
- RE: I-D file formats and internationalization Gray, Eric
- RE: I-D file formats and internationalization Hallam-Baker, Phillip
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization John C Klensin
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Tim Bray
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Masataka Ohta
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Frank Ellermann
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Frank Ellermann
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Masataka Ohta
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Frank Ellermann
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Julian Reschke
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Masataka Ohta
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Frank Ellermann
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Noel Chiappa
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Ted Faber
- RE: I-D file formats and internationalization Hallam-Baker, Phillip
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Ted Faber
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- RE: I-D file formats and internationalization Yaakov Stein
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Doug Ewell
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Douglas Otis
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Paul Hoffman
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Brian E Carpenter
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Marshall Eubanks
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Brian E Carpenter
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Marshall Eubanks
- RE: I-D file formats and internationalization Gray, Eric
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Marshall Eubanks
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Frank Ellermann
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization codewarrior
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Frank Ellermann
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Douglas Otis
- RE: I-D file formats and internationalization Yaakov Stein
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Masataka Ohta
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Randy.Dunlap
- Re: I-D file formats and internationalization Masataka Ohta