On not using (r) and (tm)
Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org> Mon, 07 February 2005 02:54 UTC
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Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 18:06:01 -0800
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From: Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>
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Subject: On not using (r) and (tm)
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At 11:52 PM +0100 2/6/05, Simon Josefsson wrote: >But why should all trademarks in a document necessarily be marked? A good question. I have asked trademark lawyers every five years or so, "if I am talking about a trademarked name in a document I'm writing, and I don't acknowledge the trademark, what damage can be done to me". The answer has consistently been, in essence, "none unless you are doing it to purposely diminish the trademark owner's property rights". If we believe that legal advice, only in pathological cases do we need to acknowledge trademarks in Internet Drafts and RFCs. Pathological cases (such as SSH) happen, but so rarely that we are safer not creating rules and dealing with those cases only when they rear their ugly heads. >I grep:ed for "Windows" in RFCs, and it is used in several documents. >Windows is a trademark, and probably even a widely known one. An excellent point. Further, there are probably a dozen or more similar examples where we do not mark or, even worse, inconsistently mark. >My point is this: Identifying and acknowledging trademarks waste time, >don't do it. Agree. > When someone want to force their way to add identifiers >or acknowledgments, put the onus on them and have them do work by >filing IPR statements. Agree. Please note that there is a downside to acknowledging a trademark that is quite similar to acknowledging a patent: you are asserting that the trademark/patent is valid even though you haven't done the legal research to validate that. If I come into a WG and say "I have a trademark on WhizzyFoo" and wave around a paper issued to me by my local government, that has about the same validity as me saying "I have a patent on this process" and waving around a similar paper from similar over-burdened bureaucrats. And, of course, the fact that I have a trademark on WhizzyFoo issued by Freedonia, who issues trademarks (and patents) liberally, should be taken into account somehow in our deliberations on whether or not to say if a term is trademarked. Slope->slippery++ The IETF's policies for the two kinds of IPR should be as nearly parallel as possible. --Paul Hoffman, Director --VPN Consortium _______________________________________________ Ipr-wg mailing list Ipr-wg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipr-wg
- draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Simon Josefsson
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Bill Sommerfeld
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Simon Josefsson
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Bill Sommerfeld
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Simon Josefsson
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Bill Sommerfeld
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Simon Josefsson
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Bill Sommerfeld
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Sam Hartman
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Simon Josefsson
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Simon Josefsson
- RE: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Lawrence Rosen
- RE: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Contreras, Jorge
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Fluri Dave
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Simon Josefsson
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt todd glassey
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Bill Sommerfeld
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Simon Josefsson
- Wasting time (Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.tx… Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Sam Hartman
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Sam Hartman
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Simon Josefsson
- Re: Wasting time (Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-0… Simon Josefsson
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Temper..... Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Simon Josefsson
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Bill Sommerfeld
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Scott Bradner
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Simon Josefsson
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Scott Bradner
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Scott Bradner
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Steven M. Bellovin
- On not using (r) and (tm) Paul Hoffman
- Re: On not using (r) and (tm) Steven M. Bellovin
- Re: On not using (r) and (tm) John Levine
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Scott W Brim
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Simon Josefsson
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt John Levine
- RE: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Bill Sommerfeld
- Re: On not using (r) and (tm) Sam Hartman
- Re: On not using (r) and (tm) Bill Sommerfeld
- Re: On not using (r) and (tm) Steven M. Bellovin
- RE: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Lawrence Rosen
- Re: On not using (r) and (tm) Scott W Brim
- Re: draft-ietf-ipr-trademarks-00.txt Scott W Brim
- Re: On not using (r) and (tm) Steven M. Bellovin
- Re: On not using (r) and (tm) Bill Sommerfeld
- Re: On not using (r) and (tm) Bill Sommerfeld