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Re: Question about timeline
Frank - I think its possible you are mistaken... let me illustrate.
For one thing the current Contributor's assignment is specific to those IP's
they are submitting in their filing, and because of this it is flawed ***
The IETF's vetting process takes that original license and increases and
refines that IP into a derivative offering. It is the licensing of that
derivative which is the issue here one would think. The Derivative in fact
may after weeks of vetting actually exclude much of the original IP in some
instances so this is actually less of an issue than it seems.
The licensing issues are simple -
1) Original Submissions and their Derivative (post vetting) Works
in-line with the original IP.
All works coming into the IETF must allow for Public Vetting of those IP's
and Derivative Works produced along the IETF Process Guidelines. This grant
must allow the IETF to create its work product and to distribute the media
per the IETF's official policy.
2) Derivative Works that evolve those IP's or exclude it after
vetting.
All works that are vetted through the List and Meeting Process such that a
new and identifiable IP entity is created. This is a new post-vetting IP
Derivative which the original owner no longer holds title to. That is
because it was vetted through the group and the group members agreed that
the IETF and not the Original Owner would hold rights to said same work
product.
3) The reprinting rights for the RFC's that are produced along the
'ride' as it were.
This is what it is ...
4) The license for the Final Standard as issued by the IESG/ISOC.
And this also is what it is.
*** FLAWED:
What I mean by flawed is that any product, IP or otherwise that is formally
vetted by the members of a WG is the property of those members per se and
not the original owner anymore as far as I can tell. There is NO "I am
providing free Engineering Services" agreement to participate in the WG's
and as such those owners either grant their rights to the IETF or they still
own them.
That said then the derivative works are already the property of the IETF and
the original holder of those property rights is no longer the sole owner.
Todd
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Ellermann" <nobody at xyzzy.claranet.de>
To: <ipr-wg at ietf.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: Question about timeline
Simon Josefsson wrote:
My point is that -incoming shouldn't be approved until there is a
working process to give third parties rights according to whatever
is in -outgoing. Publishing the documents at the same time doesn't
meet that objective -- rights are not granted to third parties
until the IASA reads -outgoing and writes legal text and publish it.
I don't get this, your article started with "obviously":
Obviously outgoing rights MUST be a subset of incoming rights -
No, actually they can be a superset of those rights ... or as limited as
being exactly equal to the incoming rights.
The superset would be derivative rights.
or as IIRC Brian put it you can't give away what you don't have.
So let's say some "incoming" memo covering the "outgoing" ideas
is approved in May. Then the trust starts to collect "incoming"
contributions in May (or after new boilerplates guarantee that
contributors know that the trust does this).
At the same time or later "outgoing" is approved. Again later
the trust creates some magic formulae trying to implement the
"outgoing" rules. Then they could wait two months just to see
what happens (and for the appeal timeout).
After that they can state that anything they've collected since
May (with sufficient "incoming" rights) is covered by the new
magic formulae implementing "outgoing".
Only _older_ contributions could have insufficient "incoming"
rights. Apparently we arrived at different conclusions about
the timing (IANAL etc., you know the drill... :-)
Frank
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