Re: recourse if our rules are violated?

[John C Klensin <john-ietf at jck.com>]

--On Tuesday, 10 April, 2007 15:27 +0200 Brian E Carpenter
<brc at zurich.ibm.com> wrote:

> On 2007-04-10 15:12, John C Klensin wrote:
>> 
>> --On Tuesday, 10 April, 2007 09:30 +0200 Brian E Carpenter
>> <brc at zurich.ibm.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2007-04-10 01:27, Scott O. Bradner wrote:
>>>> Joel expressed my opinion before I got around to it
>>> Ditto. I think any procedure that amounted to the IETF
>>> making, or appearing to make, a judgment of bad faith
>>> would expose the IETF to a world of hurt.
>> 
>> Gentlemen, I agree, which is why I made the point as
>> tentatively as I did.  _However_ I suggest that this
>> situation is not very different from the ones we make about
>> excluding people from mailing lists.  To make that
>...

> There is a difference, I think. In the case of disruptive
> postings,
> the impact is completely internal to the IETF process.
> Everybody
> learning to use the delete button would protect the standards
> process
> just as well as a ban.

I think that depends.  If the postings are disruptive because
they are, e.g., abusive of individuals and make wild claims that
are irrelevant to the IETF's technical work, then yes, there is
a difference and the issues are internal.  However, if the
disruptive individual is pushing a technically-plausible
alternative view, even one that the IETF has rejected, in a
too-aggressive way that becomes disruptive, then the IETF is
making a decision about the appropriateness of a technology (or
of further discussion of a technology) based on behavior of
individuals who we do not believe are following the rules.

> I'm not sure what that leads to in terms of IETF procedures.
> We're still left with two choices: ignore the IPR claim or 
> ignore the technology.

I would have chosen a different verb than "ignore", but, yes,
that is the problem and, at least, the reason we need to make
careful case-by-case decisions.

     john




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