Re: [Sip] Inadequate Requirements for draft-ietf-sip-199-00

["Francois Audet" <audet at nortel.com>]

So let's clarify what we are trying to solve then.

If we remove HERFP, it seems the main "requirement" is for 
a UA to free up RAM for maintaining state information
when early dialogs terminate. 

And we are doing so by adding more protocol that will add more
states to keep track of.

I am extremely sceptical that this actually simplify anything.
Especially since it order to be backwards compatible, a
UA can not assume that a 199 will be sent to free up the "resources".
I find the incentive for anybody to implement this set of procedures
to be completely unconvincing. It seems to me that it add complexity
not remove any.

I was fooled into thinking at the previous meeting that we would 
then build on top of this proposal to actually solve a real problem
(like HERFP) as opposed to theoretical "resource optimization" problem.
If it looks like HERPF will not use this, then I fail to see any 
incentive to implement 199.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: DRAGE, Keith (Keith) [mailto:drage at alcatel-lucent.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 07:45
> To: Christer Holmberg; Audet, Francois (SC100:3055); sip at ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [Sip] Inadequate Requirements for draft-ietf-sip-199-00
> 
> (As WG cochair)
> 
> The agreement in the SIPPING group where this was discussed 
> was that we were not going to solve the HERPF problem. I 
> think you will find a number of mails in the SIPPING archive 
> confirming this.
> 
> It would be useful to identify and correct any text that you 
> believe implies that the HERPF problem is to be solved.
> 
> Outside the HERPF problem I have no objection to clarifying 
> the requirements and use cases. Please note that supposedly 
> the SIPPING WG has already regarded these as complete. I 
> would like to see clarification rather than feature creep.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Keith
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: sip-bounces at ietf.org [mailto:sip-bounces at ietf.org] On 
> Behalf Of 
> > Christer Holmberg
> > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:29 PM
> > To: Francois Audet; sip at ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [Sip] Inadequate Requirements for draft-ietf-sip-199-00
> > 
> > 
> > Hi Francois,
> > 
> > As was agreed during the "requirements phase", we are not going to 
> > solve the HERPF problem as part of this task. Nobody 
> objected to that.
> > 
> > It was agreed that the scope is to only be able to indicate 
> that the 
> > early dialog has been terminated.
> > 
> > I have tried to explain different kind of "resources" for which the 
> > mechanism could be useful.
> > 
> > If you want to start a separate work item in order to solve 
> (with or 
> > without using 199) other problems you are free to propose 
> such work :)
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Christer
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Alkuperäinen viesti-----
> > Lähettäjä: Francois Audet [mailto:audet at nortel.com]
> > Lähetetty: ma 4.8.2008 22:17
> > Vastaanottaja: sip at ietf.org
> > Kopio: Christer Holmberg
> > Aihe: Inadequate Requirements for draft-ietf-sip-199-00
> >  
> > I believe that the Requirents section for this draft is completely 
> > inadequate.
> >  
> > The only material in section 3 is the following:
> > 
> > 	REQ 1: It must be possible to indicate to the UAC that an early 
> > dialog has been
> > 	terminated before a final response is sent.
> > 
> > This is almost as good as "REQ: It must be possible to do whatever 
> > this draft says".
> > 
> > This draft must really explain what it is trying to achieve. 
> > The Introduction has a bunch of text that describes what looks and 
> > smells exactly like the HERFP problem.
> > 
> > In Dublin, it was stated that this draft does not attempt 
> to solve the 
> > HERFP problem. If that is the case, then I am completely baffled by 
> > what exactly is it trying to solve.
> > Yes, there is a little bit of wording about the need to "release 
> > resources" (whatever that means), but I find it a little 
> bit hard to 
> > swallow that we need new protocol for that.
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sip mailing list  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip
> > This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol Use 
> > sip-implementors at cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use 
> > sipping at ietf.org for new developments on the application of sip
> > 
> 
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