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Re: [Sip] Inadequate Requirements for draft-ietf-sip-199-00
Hi Francois,
Nobody has said we will not work on solving the HERPF problem - potentially using 199. We only agreed not to do it as part of 199.
You are welcome to draft a proposal, and at least I would be very interested in working on that.
Reading the use-cases, I think you will see that it's not only about "freeing up some RAM". It can be used for network/bandwidth/media type-of resources.
It MAY also be part of a future solution for the forking-and-early-media solution, in cases where you can assoicate media with dialogs etc.
Regards,
Christer
-----Alkuperäinen viesti-----
Lähettäjä: Francois Audet [mailto:audet at nortel.com]
Lähetetty: ti 5.8.2008 18:49
Vastaanottaja: DRAGE, Keith (Keith); Christer Holmberg; sip at ietf.org
Aihe: RE: [Sip] Inadequate Requirements for draft-ietf-sip-199-00
So let's clarify what we are trying to solve then.
If we remove HERFP, it seems the main "requirement" is for
a UA to free up RAM for maintaining state information
when early dialogs terminate.
And we are doing so by adding more protocol that will add more
states to keep track of.
I am extremely sceptical that this actually simplify anything.
Especially since it order to be backwards compatible, a
UA can not assume that a 199 will be sent to free up the "resources".
I find the incentive for anybody to implement this set of procedures
to be completely unconvincing. It seems to me that it add complexity
not remove any.
I was fooled into thinking at the previous meeting that we would
then build on top of this proposal to actually solve a real problem
(like HERFP) as opposed to theoretical "resource optimization" problem.
If it looks like HERPF will not use this, then I fail to see any
incentive to implement 199.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DRAGE, Keith (Keith) [mailto:drage at alcatel-lucent.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 07:45
> To: Christer Holmberg; Audet, Francois (SC100:3055); sip at ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [Sip] Inadequate Requirements for draft-ietf-sip-199-00
>
> (As WG cochair)
>
> The agreement in the SIPPING group where this was discussed
> was that we were not going to solve the HERPF problem. I
> think you will find a number of mails in the SIPPING archive
> confirming this.
>
> It would be useful to identify and correct any text that you
> believe implies that the HERPF problem is to be solved.
>
> Outside the HERPF problem I have no objection to clarifying
> the requirements and use cases. Please note that supposedly
> the SIPPING WG has already regarded these as complete. I
> would like to see clarification rather than feature creep.
>
> Regards
>
> Keith
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: sip-bounces at ietf.org [mailto:sip-bounces at ietf.org] On
> Behalf Of
> > Christer Holmberg
> > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:29 PM
> > To: Francois Audet; sip at ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [Sip] Inadequate Requirements for draft-ietf-sip-199-00
> >
> >
> > Hi Francois,
> >
> > As was agreed during the "requirements phase", we are not going to
> > solve the HERPF problem as part of this task. Nobody
> objected to that.
> >
> > It was agreed that the scope is to only be able to indicate
> that the
> > early dialog has been terminated.
> >
> > I have tried to explain different kind of "resources" for which the
> > mechanism could be useful.
> >
> > If you want to start a separate work item in order to solve
> (with or
> > without using 199) other problems you are free to propose
> such work :)
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Christer
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Alkuperäinen viesti-----
> > Lähettäjä: Francois Audet [mailto:audet at nortel.com]
> > Lähetetty: ma 4.8.2008 22:17
> > Vastaanottaja: sip at ietf.org
> > Kopio: Christer Holmberg
> > Aihe: Inadequate Requirements for draft-ietf-sip-199-00
> >
> > I believe that the Requirents section for this draft is completely
> > inadequate.
> >
> > The only material in section 3 is the following:
> >
> > REQ 1: It must be possible to indicate to the UAC that an early
> > dialog has been
> > terminated before a final response is sent.
> >
> > This is almost as good as "REQ: It must be possible to do whatever
> > this draft says".
> >
> > This draft must really explain what it is trying to achieve.
> > The Introduction has a bunch of text that describes what looks and
> > smells exactly like the HERFP problem.
> >
> > In Dublin, it was stated that this draft does not attempt
> to solve the
> > HERFP problem. If that is the case, then I am completely baffled by
> > what exactly is it trying to solve.
> > Yes, there is a little bit of wording about the need to "release
> > resources" (whatever that means), but I find it a little
> bit hard to
> > swallow that we need new protocol for that.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sip mailing list https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip
> > This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol Use
> > sip-implementors at cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use
> > sipping at ietf.org for new developments on the application of sip
> >
>
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