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Re: [Sip] draft-ietf-sip-location-conveyance - Question about potential usage of the Geolocation header
There is no standard to include a cell-id in a PIDF-LO. It has been
discussed 2-3 times and the consensus was that it's a bad idea.
Brian
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bartłomiej Kołakowski [mailto:b.kolakowski at plus.pl]
> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 10:32 AM
> To: Brian Rosen; draft-ietf-sip-location-conveyance at tools.ietf.org;
> sip at ietf.org
> Subject: RE: draft-ietf-sip-location-conveyance - Question about potential
> usage of the Geolocation header
>
> Thanks for reply Brian.
> Probably we'll go for the SUBSCRIBE/NOTIFY option. We'd rather keep cell
> ids inside our network, but anyway it's not really possible (see Google's
> My Location). So far we won't have any 3rd parties connected to IMS
> though.
>
> Do you know if there is any standard to include a cell-id into PIDF-LO?
>
> Bartek
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Rosen [mailto:br at brianrosen.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, AugFrom sip-bounces at ietf.org Thu Aug 28 10:03:50 2008
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From: "Brian Rosen" <br at brianrosen.net>
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<draft-ietf-sip-location-conveyance at tools.ietf.org>, <sip at ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Sip] draft-ietf-sip-location-conveyance - Question about
potential usage of the Geolocation header
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There is no standard to include a cell-id in a PIDF-LO. It has been
discussed 2-3 times and the consensus was that it's a bad idea.
Brian
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bartłomiej Kołakowski [mailto:b.kolakowski at plus.pl]
> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 10:32 AM
> To: Brian Rosen; draft-ietf-sip-location-conveyance at tools.ietf.org;
> sip at ietf.org
> Subject: RE: draft-ietf-sip-location-conveyance - Question about potential
> usage of the Geolocation header
>
> Thanks for reply Brian.
> Probably we'll go for the SUBSCRIBE/NOTIFY option. We'd rather keep cell
> ids inside our network, but anyway it's not really possible (see Google's
> My Location). So far we won't have any 3rd parties connected to IMS
> though.
>
> Do you know if there is any standard to include a cell-id into PIDF-LO?
>
> Bartek
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Rosen [mailto:br at brianrosen.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, ust 13, 2008 10:24 PM
> To: Bartłomiej Kołakowski; draft-ietf-sip-location-
> conveyance at tools.ietf.org; sip at ietf.org
> Subject: RE: draft-ietf-sip-location-conveyance - Question about potential
> usage of the Geolocation header
>
> You can use the "HELD" protocol, rather than a SIP SUBSCRIBE/NOTIFY for
> the dereference, if that makes it seem simpler to you. SUBSCRIBE/NOTIFY
> is quite simple, and most devices and services implement it for other
> reasons.
>
> We have discussed using cell-id as a representation mechanism, but have
> been told, many times, that operators will not divulge location of cell
> ids beyond the immediate network, which makes this form of location
> entirely
> unsuitable for the range of applications we envisioned. If you have
> different information, please share it.
>
> On the other hand, even if we did allow cell id as a form of location, it
> would be inside a PIDF-LO, and thus would need to be in a body.
>
> I don't think putting actual location in the header is a good idea, as it
> cannot be protected against inadvertent disclosure. That would be a
> problem in the IETF.
>
> Brian
> ________________________________________
> From: Bartłomiej Kołakowski [mailto:b.kolakowski at plus.pl]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 10:04 AM
> To: draft-ietf-sip-location-conveyance at tools.ietf.org; sip at ietf.org
> Subject: draft-ietf-sip-location-conveyance - Question about potential
> usage of the Geolocation header
>
> Hello,
> I have got such concern regarding location conveyance in SIP messages: I
> am designing IMS Appilcation Server, acting as a proxy, that would query
> network elements for location information. As you wrote proxies cannot
> insert message body, so the only way is to provide location by reference.
> This requires appling SUBSCRIBE-NOTIFY mechanism, which makes the
> architecture of the solution quit complex.
> In order to make it simpler I thought about including location information
> as locationValue inside the Geolocation header. In fact we do not need
> location represented with coordinates, but with cell-id (that's mobile
> network). PIDF-LO does not support it, but maybe inside a header that
> would be possible? There would be also an issue in indicating loaction
> target whose location is included (we plan to include both A and B parties
> location). Geolocation header would look like this:
> Geolocation: {cell-id-3gpp}
> ;location-target="bob at plus.pl";inserted-by="las at plus.pl"
> What do you think about souch a usage of Geolocation header, maybe you
> could give us some other solution?
> Thank you in advance,
> Bartłomiej Kołakowski
> Service Solutions Architect
> Service Development Support Department
> Polkomtel S.A
> tel. 601131509
_______________________________________________
Sip mailing list https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip
This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol
Use sip-implementors at cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip
Use sipping at ietf.org for new developments on the application of sip
2008 10:24 PM
> To: Bartłomiej Kołakowski; draft-ietf-sip-location-
> conveyance at tools.ietf.org; sip at ietf.org
> Subject: RE: draft-ietf-sip-location-conveyance - Question about potential
> usage of the Geolocation header
>
> You can use the "HELD" protocol, rather than a SIP SUBSCRIBE/NOTIFY for
> the dereference, if that makes it seem simpler to you. SUBSCRIBE/NOTIFY
> is quite simple, and most devices and services implement it for other
> reasons.
>
> We have discussed using cell-id as a representation mechanism, but have
> been told, many times, that operators will not divulge location of cell
> ids beyond the immediate network, which makes this form of location
> entirely
> unsuitable for the range of applications we envisioned. If you have
> different information, please share it.
>
> On the other hand, even if we did allow cell id as a form of location, it
> would be inside a PIDF-LO, and thus would need to be in a body.
>
> I don't think putting actual location in the header is a good idea, as it
> cannot be protected against inadvertent disclosure. That would be a
> problem in the IETF.
>
> Brian
> ________________________________________
> From: Bartłomiej Kołakowski [mailto:b.kolakowski at plus.pl]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 10:04 AM
> To: draft-ietf-sip-location-conveyance at tools.ietf.org; sip at ietf.org
> Subject: draft-ietf-sip-location-conveyance - Question about potential
> usage of the Geolocation header
>
> Hello,
> I have got such concern regarding location conveyance in SIP messages: I
> am designing IMS Appilcation Server, acting as a proxy, that would query
> network elements for location information. As you wrote proxies cannot
> insert message body, so the only way is to provide location by reference.
> This requires appling SUBSCRIBE-NOTIFY mechanism, which makes the
> architecture of the solution quit complex.
> In order to make it simpler I thought about including location information
> as locationValue inside the Geolocation header. In fact we do not need
> location represented with coordinates, but with cell-id (that's mobile
> network). PIDF-LO does not support it, but maybe inside a header that
> would be possible? There would be also an issue in indicating loaction
> target whose location is included (we plan to include both A and B parties
> location). Geolocation header would look like this:
> Geolocation: {cell-id-3gpp}
> ;location-target="bob at plus.pl";inserted-by="las at plus.pl"
> What do you think about souch a usage of Geolocation header, maybe you
> could give us some other solution?
> Thank you in advance,
> Bartłomiej Kołakowski
> Service Solutions Architect
> Service Development Support Department
> Polkomtel S.A
> tel. 601131509
_______________________________________________
Sip mailing list https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip
This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol
Use sip-implementors at cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip
Use sipping at ietf.org for new developments on the application of sip