Re: [Asrg] Spooked mail addresses

[Seth Breidbart <sethb at panix.com>]

"Alan DeKok" <aland@ox.org> wrote:
> Seth Breidbart <sethb@panix.com> wrote:
>> >  So such messages are *indistinguishable* from spam.
>> Only if you have a rather weak distinguisher.  There are a lot of ways
>> to distinguish this message from spam,
>
>  During the SMTP phase, before the message body is received?  Nope.

So you're looking for a way to distinguish spam from non-spam prior to
receiving the message?  It can't be done.  Period.

Proof:

1. Your mother signs up for an AOL account.  Using that account, going
   through AOL's mailserver, she sends you email.  Non-spam.

2. A spammer signs up for an AOL account.  Using that account, going
   through AOL's mailserver, she sends you email.  Spam.

>> If I use my own email address then it isn't forgery, period.
>
>  You appear to be completely missing the point of my entire
> argument.  *You* believe that such messages aren't spam, but you're
> the originator.

Do you know the difference between "spam" and "forgery"?  I didn't say
that somebody using his own address makes the message non-spam, I said
it makes it non-forged.

>  As the recipient *I* don't know that such forged messages aren't
> spam.

*You* apparently don't even know that such non-forged messages aren't
forged.

>  Once again, how does my recipient MTA know this?  All you're talking
> about is general concepts "of course you should trust the NYT".
> OK... why?  How?  How do I express that trust, or enforce it in my
> MTA?  so far, you've ignored that topic entirely.

How do you trust _any other_ sender?

>  My business model is that I don't want to deal with people who forge
> messages.

You apparently don't want to deal with people who use their own email
addresses through sending MTAs you haven't blessed.  That's fine with
me.

>  Should I be forced to accept such forged messages from the NY times?

Of course not.  You shouldn't be _forced_ to accept any message, for
any reason or no reason.  Remember, I'm the person whose home computer
will not accept email from any IP address that's a prime number.  My
toys, my rules.

>  If the answer is "no", then the NY times (and anyone else) must jump
> through MY hoops in order to talk to me.  My MTA, my business model,
> my rules.  If they don't like it, they don't have to talk to me.

That's right.  All that I'm objecting to is your _mischaracterizing_
what is being done as "forgery".

Seth

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